I’m still spinning from tonight’s episode of “Lost, The Constant,” and I don’t say this lightly. When all is said and done, The Constant may be the most significant episode in the series. Leave it to a Desmond centric episode to deliver so many answers.
I’ll have more to add as the day goes on and as I digest The Constant, but for me the most relevant thing that came out of the episode is learning who can leave the island and more importantly, we may have learned who cannot leave the island and why. I’ll also need to touch on the super cool idea of time travel being mind travel…WOW!!!!
Simply put…If one was in close proximity when the EMP went off caused when the hatch exploded/imploded they cannot leave the island without a constant or they are "stuck". Presumably, if anyone was not in range they could leave the island without any side effects.
Sayid, Sun and Jim were aboard Desmond’s boat that was heading to rescue Jack, Kate, Sawyer and Hurley. They too were not on the island near the beach when the hatch exploded.
We need to get to the “8 Survivors” of Oceanic 815 and eventually get to the Oceanic Six. We now know that Jack, Kate, Hurley and Sayid are four of the 6 (Oceanic Six) and also 4 of the 8. My guess is that not being at the site of the blast areas of the EMP, Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Jin, Sun, Hureley, Sayid, Michael and Walt are immune to the comings and goings on the island. Two of them will be the other 2 to make the Oceanic Six and 4 of them will make the total survivors 8. (The “8 Survivors” are the lie that Jack told in the courtroom). It is also possible that the other 2 could be anyone since the "8 survivors" is based on a lie. The Oceanic Six being the important number, for now.
If my theory holds true we have 9 Losties immune to leaving the island and to get to 8, someone has to die………..hmmmmmmm….and to get to the Oceanic Six a total of 3 people from my list have to die or be said to have died……. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm…Jack tells the court that 8 people survived the flight and 6 made it off the island. Since we know this to be untrue it is not a giant leap in the story to say 6 people could get off the island and two people could stay behind and be said to be dead in the recanting of the story. Also as I mentioned above the "Oceanic Six" are more important than the 8 or 9 in my theory.
Maybe none of my 9 Losties who are immune in my theory will die, but I still think we will see some deaths in the faces I have pictured above to get us to the Oceanic Six. I also think that Aaron is going to be able to get off the island “somehow” and will not be considered part of the Oceanic Six. That would explain why Kate is with Aaron if Claire cannot leave the island due to her close proximity to the hatch explosion.
Random Thoughts:
Frank Lapidus: At this point, he still seems like a fair guy as he wants to help out and he appears to want to do the right thing. At the same time, I am still keeping my eye on Frank since he seems to have a hidden-end game.
We've Seen Queens College/Oxford Before: Daniel tells Desmond to find him in 1996. The shot we see of the College from The Constant is on top. Seen it before? Look closely at the photo of Ms Hawking and Brother Campbell.
My Crazy h20 Theory: I noticed that water played a role in all the mind travel in The Constant. Minkowski on the boat, Desmond in the in the army with the rain and when they first hit the thunderhead in the helicopter ( Cumulonimbus clouds seen during a thunderstorm ) Desmond did his initial mind travel in this episode. Now for the crazy h20 theory. Let's say that water does play a role in facilitating the mind travel. When Desmond goes to see Charles Widmore at the auction Widmore leaves the water running in the bathroom. Hmmmmmm. Me thinks he knows a lot more than he is letting on and maybe even left the water on to "help" or to hurt Desmond with the mind travel. Water running plus book purchases = Widmore is up to something.
Much more later.. All the math and science stuff takes more research time.
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Comments (119)
written by Ben Harris , February 29, 2008
WOW... Didn't even think of this... You may be onto something....
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written by beth burns , February 29, 2008
You are either 100% wrong or a genius
Great theory either way report abuse
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written by Sally , February 29, 2008
I'll add a double WOW. My head is spinning. Fantastic theory Seat42f
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written by skater , February 29, 2008
I agree with beth - 100% wrong or genius - this didn't even occur to me watching last night - fab stuff - truly fab
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written by Just Jody (from Canada) , February 29, 2008
This is a fantastic theory 42f! I love it! Great observations on who all was away from the island at the time of the implosion and what that could mean.
I have 2 items that conflict with your theory, and I was hoping you could offer some thoughts... because I really do love your theory.
1 - As Aaron was with Claire when the hatch imploded wouldn't that make him unable to leave the island as well? I do agree with you that he's not considered one of the Oceanic Six though.
2 - Do you think the guy in the sick bay on the freighter (Minkowski) who was having the time flash problems, was on the island when the hatch imploded? Why would he be having the same problems as Desmond? I suppose if he is Ben's man on the boat then it is possible that he could have been on the island at the time...
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written by Seat42f.... , February 29, 2008
Just Jody -
For whatever reason I don't think the rules apply to Aaron. Perhaps his age? or significance to the island? Also I suppose Kate could be his Constant if he can do the mind travel bit and that would allow him to leave the island.
On Minkowski - I still think Michael is Ben's man on the boat. However I think that like Daniel ( who had prolonged exposure to radiation with his tests ) Minkowski had prolonged exposure off island as well. Maybe in his work as the radio guy? then when he took his boat trip when he was bored and wanted to see the island he became "stuck".
Lots to ponder... another big question is if the EMP causes the mind travel thing then why do some people mind travel and not others? maybe the ones that are predisposed to mind travel are on a list
Seat42f
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written by Just Jody (from Canada) , February 29, 2008
Maybe it's because Aaron was born on the island? He is the onely one to ever be born there.
I actually agree that Michael is most likely the man on the boat, I just keep hoping it's not going to be that obvious! And yes, I suppose there could be many explanations as to why Minkowski was time travelling as well. Thanks.
Maybe it's just people who got to the island but were not on flight 815 who mind-time-travel?
LOL @ them being on a list!
Great theory, it's changed the whole episode for me. Thanks!
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written by Tim N Texas , February 29, 2008
Cool stuff. I too never even thought of this while watching last night. I'm sitting here trying to poke a hole in your theory but can't find one, yet
It does make a lot of sense though. I will have to check back later to see what else you have gleaned from The Constant report abuse
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written by Paul , March 01, 2008
That rocks! I'm now going to have to look at your old postings and see your theories on those as well. Too bad we didn't have this Interweb thingy as prevalent back during the X-Files. Keep up the great posts.
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written by Mags , March 01, 2008
Fantastic theory! Would explain a lot about who has these time flashes, and who doesn't as well as who may still make it off the island.
As for Jin and Sun, I think they get off the island, but are perceived as dead so they can disappear and have their baby away from her evil family.
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written by mojoe , March 01, 2008
tempral vortex out of sync with time as we know it the vortex is held open by the strong radiation and magnetic field
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written by what about ben? , March 02, 2008
Ben was off the island as well, remember that arab guy was working for him? Is he supposed to be part of the 6 or 9 or whatever?
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written by Schnitzel , March 04, 2008
Thumbs up for this tremendous theory... Has anyone thought ofthe "second" plane of oceanic 815 found with all bodies dead?! Love to hear how you build it in your theory...
Keep up the good work... report abuse
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written by Bek , March 04, 2008
Great theory. I feel as though I might have just ruined my last few seasons of LOST
All of this is plausible and I think we will find you are right on many points. I didn't notice the water thing. That's a very interesting theory. I wonder if it was also a thing with Daniel and the guy strapped down in the sick bay. report abuse
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written by wvtribefan , March 04, 2008
Aaron is immune, because he has no past to go back to being a baby.
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written by Eimear , March 04, 2008
WHAT ABOUT BEN, Ben couldn't be one of the eight survivors, because he wasn't in a crash to survive. The same as Juliet and Desmond couldn't be counted because they weren't on the plane.
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written by 3D , March 04, 2008
Just Jody (from Canada) said:
I actually agree that Michael is most likely the man on the boat, I just keep hoping it's not going to be that obvious! And yes, I suppose there could be many explanations as to why Minkowski was time travelling as well. Thanks.
Keep in mind that it's only obvious to hardcore, spoiler-reading LOST nuts like us, because we know that Harold Perrineau is coming back to the show and is appearing in Episode 8. For regular people I know, it hasn't even crossed their minds. I am sure it will be a pretty big WTF?! moment if Michael is indeed the man working for Ben on the boat.
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written by SRH in HI , March 04, 2008
This is an awesome theory! I also agree with the idea that the rules don't apply to Aaron. The "constant" is someone/something prevalent in both the person's pre-island and current-island life. Seeing as Aaron doesn't have a pre-island life, he shouldn't need a constant to help him leave the island, should he?
this is terrific. Good work, seat42f! I remember your comments and questions from the WWK Monday chats. I didn't know you had a site, but I look forward to checking back here.
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written by Third Echelon , March 04, 2008
The constant doesn't have anything to do with coming to or leaving the island or even the island itslef, it's about the psychological effects of the time travel. As Faraday explained it the purpose of having a constant is to have something familiar in the two time periods that the person's consciousness is jumping between to avoid becoming disoriented and unstable.
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written by Jacob , March 04, 2008
Q: Why would aaron be able to leave, but not Claire?
A: Aaron was given injections by the Others (the people that could leave the island on a whim) before he was born, and then given a Dharma "Vaccine" by Claire shortly before the EMP went off. Could either, or both, of these answer the question?
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written by bolix , March 04, 2008
Minkowski = Radzinsky???
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written by Anne , March 04, 2008
Radzinsky blew his head off. I think he's probably gone.
I too think Aaron is immune either because he was born on the island, or because of the injections.
But I wonder: Why doesn't Juliet leave? I know she wasn't an Oceanic passenger, but she could still leave because she wasn't exposed to the hatch esplosion?
And why would Claire let Kate take Aaron, being that he his not to be "raised by another"?
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written by Sladewilson , March 04, 2008
I like your theory and using that here's who I think are the other two members of the Oceanic Six:
Sun and Jin.
Sawyer (as far as we know) doesn't want off the island, so it's conceivable that he stays. Claire also, for whatever reason. Here's where it gets interesting: technically - Michael and Walt are gone so they can't be part of the Oceanic Six. Don't be surprised if they took on other identities...
That's my call on that one. Anyone else could have left and not be counted. We already know Ben can leave, why not Juliet?
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written by RB , March 04, 2008
I can't read your article, the right part of the wording runs under the Google Ads.
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written by Tony , March 04, 2008
3D - How about a spoiler warning? I love looking at past episodes and trying to figure out what is going on (and guessing that Michael would be back), but would have preferred not to know that the actor that plays Michael is going to be in episode 8.
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written by Jeff , March 04, 2008
Gotta say I totally disagree. I think the only 'affected' person from the EMP blast is Desmond. That's why he's the one unstuck in time and needing a constant. I think the Oceanic 6 will be comprised of people who are either in the right place at the right time or are somehow forced off the Island.
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written by Terri , March 04, 2008
Water theory supports why Walt always looked "wet".
Claire was told by psychic not to let Aaton be "raised by another" she could have meant "raised by an OTHER!"
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written by Kari , March 04, 2008
I think that you don't necessarily have to have been near radiation to feel the results of time travel- IF you veer off course. Minkowski and the other guy were out goofing of in a boat who knows where- and Desmond had taken off in his sail boat before returning to the island.
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written by Seat42f* , March 04, 2008
Third Echelon said:
The constant doesn't have anything to do with coming to or leaving the island or even the island itslef, it's about the psychological effects of the time travel. As Faraday explained it the purpose of having a constant is to have something familiar in the two time periods that the person's consciousness is jumping between to avoid becoming disoriented and unstable.
-----------------------------------
While I agree,, it does play here... If you don't have a constant and have been exposed to the EMP how can you leave? Without a tie to the past when the effects kick in you will become stuck ( Minkowski). Sayid and Frank were fine in the Thunderhead ( no EMP or radiation exposure) . Desmond needed his constant and the relief on Daniels face at episode end knowing he had a constant said it all to me. He knew he could leave the island because he had a tie to the island and the past.
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written by Seat42f* , March 04, 2008
Terri said:
Water theory supports why Walt always looked "wet".
Claire was told by psychic not to let Aaton be "raised by another" she could have meant "raised by an OTHER!"
_____________________________________
And to play h20 conspiracy nut. Daniel was crying when were introduced to his character. Perhaps he was in a mind travel via the tears.
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written by Simone , March 04, 2008
What about the fact that Desmond saw flashes about Charlie dying? Does that mean that he could do this time stuff all along?
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written by Phil C , March 04, 2008
The Queen's College / Hawking connection is a little less insidious than it looks - the location where the College scenes where filmed has been used many times previously in Lost. Including Charlie's Manchester church and, more importantly in terms of tht photo, the monestary where Desmond stayed (you can see the exact same location in the scene where Desmond loads Penny's car for her)
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written by KELLY , March 04, 2008
Seat42f* said:
While I agree,, it does play here... If you don't have a constant and have been exposed to the EMP how can you leave? Without a tie to the past when the effects kick in you will become stuck ( Minkowski). Sayid and Frank were fine in the Thunderhead ( no EMP or radiation exposure) . Desmond needed his constant and the relief on Daniels face at episode end knowing he had a constant said it all to me. He knew he could leave the island because he had a tie to the island and the past.
I understand and agree with what you are saying but is it just because they also went out from the island on the wrong co-ordinates, too, perhaps; that Desmond did the whole mind-timetravel thing?? regardless of whether or not they have been exposed to high radiation they still might be able to leave providing they follow the coordinates; do we know whether he did stick to the coordinates or not- i can't remember
think all the water is probably just coincidence, personally, yet a part of me wants to admit that nothing in lost is probably mere coincidence. could just be symbolism for the island or whatever though. And i agree that others could get off of the island without being included in the Oceanic 6; Juliet seems an obvious candidate as she definately would not be counted in the oceanic 6; more importantly; everything in the story provided by the Oceanic 6 is lies; so its hard to establish any kind of logic on what might actually have happened or who is included in the 6; they could be saying they're just 6 when a whole load of others escaped too but wanted new identities or something; presumeably from what we've seen so far they would be provided with that.
Desmond is a great character, isn't he?
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written by Sarah , March 04, 2008
wow, theories everywhere~~~ I think a couple of people mentioned the fact about Kate taking Aaron and Claire staying on the island...I'm guessing she's supposed to get on the boat/helicopter but something happens at the last minute and Kate is left with Aaron in her arms to protect~ The "an other" theory is also a good one. I guess we'll have to cross our fingers and hope they explain everything soon~
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written by julie , March 04, 2008
Is there a timeline anywhere- so that even though we've watched 4 seasons, ands only 3 months have gone by, we can tell what dates Michael left, Sawyer and Kate were imprisoned, Aaron was born, Desmond imploded the hatch....i need a timeline!!!
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written by UKLostit , March 04, 2008
Whats to say a secret bunch of survivors don't get off the island! think about it tho we know that there has been some sort of compromise between the O6 and whoever got them to the mainland. so others might have got off the island via another means i.e penny's on her way.
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written by hatchling23 , March 04, 2008
excellent observations, very well thought out.
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written by j.c. , March 04, 2008
but Desmond had a time travel in the lab and there was not water visible on the lab, he also had another one when he was going down the stairs and again not water over there.
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written by FlimFlam , March 04, 2008
Just a minor note, The Constant is NOT the first time we see Desmond mind travel. He did it last season, and even encountered Charlie in his travels (Charlie was singing on the street).
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written by Cherries , March 04, 2008
When Charlie agreed to turn the switch off it was because Desmond told him that needed to occur in order for them to be rescued. Desmond saw Claire and Aaron get onto a helicopter. Is it possible that Claire does get onto the helicopter, but doesn't survive as she doesn't have a constant. Aaron would have a constant (if needed) because he would eventually flash back to someone else who gets off the island with him, such as Kate who did deliver him.
As for the rest of the oceanic six I agree that it would most likely be people who were not near the hatch when it imploded. My vote is for Sun and Jin as I sincerly doubt that Sawyer would leave the island. Perhaps they name Charlie as the other survivor of the crash (to account for the total
as a tribute to him, since he died to save them. That would also allow for Charlie and Claire to be remembered together. One more thing, I wonder if Jack knows that Aaron is his nephew in the future.
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written by Youza , March 04, 2008
Interesting theory about water, but how did the mouse time-travel without it?
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written by CB , March 04, 2008
This is a great theory. J.C. has a good point about the water not always being visible when Desmond & the mouse time travelled.
And why would Claire let Kate take Aaron, being that he his not to be "raised by another"?
Anne, I agree. I think something happens to Claire & Kate goes bad. (Just look at Kate's eyes at the very end of "Eggtown". It was creepy).
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written by JJA , March 04, 2008
How about the eight as the Oceanic Six Michael and Walt? Say that, as far as Jack is concerned, they're still missing, whereabouts unknown. He can't account for them, but at the same time he doesn't want to declare them dead just incase they turn up and reveal his lie.
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written by CB , March 04, 2008
Oops! I didn't mean to italicize that last line.
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written by Seat42f* , March 04, 2008
FlimFlam said:
Just a minor note, The Constant is NOT the first time we see Desmond mind travel. He did it last season, and even encountered Charlie in his travels (Charlie was singing on the street).
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Indeed, in Flashes Before Your Eyes Desmond does see Charlie and it rains ( that water again )... That mind travel was caused by head trauma. Daniel mentions being exposed to radiation or head trauma. Desmond was hit during the blast and then again at the bar with by the guy trying to hit the bartender...
I also think Desmond could see the future in addition to the mind travel. Two different things in my opinion. He was seeing things on the island without "leaving" his mind/body. My guess is the island is off from the real world time wise and the blast caused Desmond to be off as well. He's not really seeing the future so much as he was seeing things real time and not island time.
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written by Seat42f* , March 04, 2008
julie said:
Is there a timeline anywhere- so that even though we've watched 4 seasons, ands only 3 months have gone by, we can tell what dates Michael left, Sawyer and Kate were imprisoned, Aaron was born, Desmond imploded the hatch....i need a timeline!!!
-----------
http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Timeline
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written by Seat42f* , March 04, 2008
CB said:
This is a great theory. J.C. has a good point about the water not always being visible when Desmond & the mouse time travelled.
And why would Claire let Kate take Aaron, being that he his not to be "raised by another"?
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or raised by an other
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written by JEA , March 04, 2008
Any thoughts on the fact that Charlie (who died in WATER and was very near the hatch radiation) was able to be in the future with Hurley? Do you think he was a ghost or Hurley's vision...or could he have time traveled to be with Hurley...or could he have time traveled out of the water and now be living in another time? With those theories, we also we have to think about the other two who were near the hatch explosion...Locke and Mr Eko. Any thoughts everyone?
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written by bluebutton , March 04, 2008
The injections are probably not what "immunized" Aaron, since Desmond was also taking injections when he was in the Hatch.
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written by tk_az , March 04, 2008
Can I just add onto the theory of the Oceanic 6/8? As you said, we know the first 4. I think 5 & 6 are Michael and Walt. Something will happen to Sawyer -- he's already leaning towards wanting to stay on the island. As far as Jin & Sun, we know they were trying to escape their life and move to the US. My idea is that Jack's referring to them as the two who didn't make it, but they're in-fact living safe and sound in Albuquerque with their baby under different identities.
So that makes the Oceanic 6: Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sayid, Michael, Walt. The original 8 who "survived" also includes Jin and Sun.
Play with that...
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written by Millertime , March 04, 2008
As to everyone's mentions of the time travel be related to the blast. What about at the very beginning where Rousseau tells Sayid that she killed ther est of her crew because they were all "suffering from a sickness". That sounds a lot like our time travleing and would be caused very similiarly to Minkowski. Any thoughts???
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written by Paula , March 05, 2008
Many, including Tim Robbins, have used water as a metaphor for a universal mechanism of travel. Great discussion.
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written by october , March 05, 2008
One of the "Eight" has to be Claire. This, however, doesn't mean she has to be part of the "Six" as I'm certain she stays behind. My reasoning behind her being one of the "Eight" is Aaron. Kate was clearly not pregnant before she got on the island, and since she was not there for 9 months, anyone back in the States would deem Aaron not her biological child. Even if the "Six" were off the radar for the first couple (or many) months upon return, as I believe they were, Aaron's age would dispel any lies they (the "Six) could come up with. I believe using the story of the "Eight" allows the "Six" to claim Claire did in fact survive the crash, but didn't survive the island (i.e. she died in childbirth). That way, the other five could claim Kate has been taking care of Aaron since birth, and neither he nor she have any kin to look after him, there was no debate over any alternative forms of custody. In addition, this would explain why Jack doesn't want to see Aaron. As we all know, Jack takes the blame for anything that happens, whether he could control it or not. Obviously he would feel guilty for leaving Claire behind without Aaron, but I believe Ben will let him in on the fact that he is actually her half brother. Which will ultimately double, triple, etc. his guilt.
On another note, I think when the helicopter arrives to take the "Six", Claire will originally be set to board with Aaron. As we know in Desmond's flash he "Saw Claire and the baby getting on the rescue helicopter." No where in the flash did he say they were rescued, just that they at least attempted to board. I believe Claire will either step on the helicopter to hand the baby to Kate or someone aboard OR she will actually begin to get on and/or actually be seated on the helicopter before being removed. No one on board the helicopter would refuse to give their seat to Claire, and Claire would never voluntarily give up Aaron.
I think the "six" have something to do with Ben and Jacob. 3 of the "six" (Kate, Jack, Hurley) were on Jacoob's list before. I think Ben has this all planned, who will board, who will not. Which is why he is able to control them in the future (or at least Sayid at the moment)
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written by lost revelation , March 05, 2008
the theory goes something like this: there are two of each person. Each person on the island is a clone of there previous self in the real world.
See in the last episode when Desmond rings Penny from the island it shows him walking away from the house in the real world
Desmond is not actually travelling back in time its the mind of his clone on the island that is disfunctioning and he eventually becomes confused over what is his real lifeless self. It is simply the effects of cloning ie hurley going mad over seeing Charlie what he cant realise is he is only seeing an image of what his clone self on the island has seen. Ben is the guy who is the scientist behind the idea of the cloning and that is why he gets all the research for each person on the island back at home Jacob and the hut is just an experiment to test the sanity of the clones as well as pressing the button to test the clones psychological state. Thinkas well why does Desmond see Charlie in the rain back at home when he is on the island. Why does Ekos brother say in one of the episodes "you speak to me as though you are my brother" Ben is responsible for getting the oceanic six off the island ie having control over Sayid he basically uses the clones to his own advantage ie Sayid is a well known so bit of a guy whos an expert in torturing. Any comments
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written by Deborah , March 05, 2008
Just Jody, isn't it true that Alex was also born on the island?
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written by sndstorm , March 05, 2008
it sounds... awesome. makes me wonder, how close do you have to be to the EMP to be susceptible to mind travel? How would it have affected Locke, or Eko? I wonder who else (if anyone) could have been close enough to the EMP to also experience mind travel... man...
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written by Larry , March 05, 2008
Great theory!
Just a note to point out that Minkowski is a name well known to Time-Travel enthusiasts.
Hermann Minkowski (June 22, 1864 – January 12, 1909) expanded on Einstein’s special theory of relativity by describing what is now known as "Minkowski spacetime". In his view time and space are not separated entities but intermingled in a four dimensional space-time. Minkowsky said "Henceforth space by itself, and time by itself, are doomed to fade away into mere shadows, and only a kind of union of the two will preserve an independent reality”. (From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
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written by Jobuca , March 05, 2008
lost revelation, the clone theory does explain a lot. Unfortunately TPTB have stated many times, in no uncertain terms that clones are not part of Lost.
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written by Stevie , March 05, 2008
TBTB said that...
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Henry Ian Cusick (Desmond): "It's 2004 on the boat. What year is it in Penny's world? What year is it when the Oceanic 6 get home?"
Lindelof: What's fundamentally interesting about all the time-jumping is that we want it to make sense when people watch the show 10 years from now. We don't want it to seem dated. So it's not really about what year it is in the outside world, it's about how many years have elapsed between the time that we're watching on the island and the flash-forwards. That's one of the fun games the audience is playing: "Gee, Aaron looks like he's about 18 months old. What does that mean, and how old was he when they got off the island?"
Cuse: There are some growth issues when you go on or off the island. But I can't say more about that.
Lindelof: You've already said enough.
*************************************
The hatch exsplosion could be the cause of his growth.That being the only side effect he has from the island
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written by Sin , March 05, 2008
Ben was born on the Island just like Aaron, but the truth about the plot is that the writers have been making it up as they go along. I'm sure in the last couple of years they have figured out where they want to go, but your theory is meaningless; no less valid, but the way they write this show, everything could go out the window in any moment. They are freeballing it all the way to crazy town.
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written by DJ , March 05, 2008
What about Dan's short flashback? When they announced that the Oceanic Flight 815 had been found, he was crying, and didn't know why.
Significant, much? Because he's a mind/time-traveler, methinks.
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written by Rosiros , March 05, 2008
Ben was not born on the Island. He went on the Island when he was about 9-10 years old with his daddy, for work reasons.
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written by Stevie , March 05, 2008
******* Sin said:
Ben was born on the Island just like Aaron,
BEN WAS NOT BORN ON THE ISLAND he went with his father to the island he was born next to the road.
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written by Stevie , March 05, 2008
here is some info on ben and when he was born
***************
Ben Linus was born on December 20th in the early 1960s, early in his mother Emily's third trimester. Roger and Emily Linus were hiking in a forest 32 miles outside Portland, Oregon (Official Lost Podcast/September 21, 2007) when she went into early labor. The birth went badly for Emily, and Roger carried her out to a roadway, flagging down Horace and Olivia, a couple passing by, for help. Ben lived, but Emily died. Emily's last words were to name the child "Benjamin".
**********************
As found on lostpedia
http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Benjamin_Linus
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written by LOSTIE , March 05, 2008
i'm pretty sure, sawyer is one of the oceanic six. as seen in "through the looking glass" jack goes to a funeral. nobody is there. no family, no friends. at the end he shares the information about the funeral with kate. i guess this is the funeral of sawyer...
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written by Scatterbrain , March 05, 2008
Neat theory, Thomas, no doubt. But just a thought that came to my mind after compiling severeal earlier ideas...
It seems that the show is about duplication/repetition in many sense: the wreck itself, Desmond's "flash-throughs" ( other's yet unkown), Charlie's "I'm really here, but I'm also dead" all the numerous symbolisms of figures and objects and black/white etc etc. But I think the fact how often the losties' paths in the past have crossed through an intermediary, is beyond of being just organized by someone (would it be Dharma, Hanso, Widmore or whatever).
I mean that besides them all having a secret connection pre-crash that led them also being put on this specific plane (btw somehow all related to their fathers) - that is not enough to explain all the coherence with things off and on the island. Think of the bleep of the microwave Des hears in s3e8 that is the same with the hatch's computer. Same paintings and pictures in everyone's FB's. Charlie saving Sayid's Nadia from the mugger she was also linked to Locke. And most of all: those notorious numbers everywhere you lay your eyes on =) Anyway, lostpedia character connection site gives hundreds of them. Every flashback is full of these odd connections.
There was a great post somewhere claiming that their memories have been scanned by smoke monster, planted in new order in their minds for whatever reason, and as a result the memories are not really theirs but their fellow losties'. So those memories are mixed up and us the viewers are shown how they remember wrong upon their lives without realising it.
My notion is this: what if the memories/thoughts are not just mixed but are heading into a collective memory? It's a valid concept what comes to a certain group trying to remember something they've experienced together forming a unified "truth" of it. Maybe the island is shaping their memories into more unified form for whatever reason that is. We have to remember that the flashbacks are probably the characters's own recollection of it - not necessarily how it actually was.
In other words, the losties are unknowingly inserting more meanings to their memories than there are. This enables them later catch the similarities in their lives i.e. Jack and Claire realizing they are siblings; Sayid, Charlie and Locke's Nadia connection; Libby with Desmond, Hurley etc etc... We saw one outcome for this already: Sawyer killing the real Sawyer (though he didn't even have personal memory of it!).
Perhaps they are all guinea-pigs of some experiment and their true connection will be revealed not until the end of the show. Maybe they are indeed in this same mess e.g. through their fathers. Therefore maybe those connections are not real but there is a purpose why the losties need to believe so. It's as if something (the island?) is re-shaping them into collective memory to form a..eh..cult or similar. There are clear indications that religion in some form is closely attached to the story.
Anyway this is just tossing ideas around, haven't took this theory further. Please, comment.
One evidence for this: Eko carved "LIFT UP YOUR EYES AND LOOK NORTH", with JOHN 3:05" we also know that bearing 305 was what Daniel emphaticly told Frank to fly on.
Q: If this was Eko's clue for Locke about the gateway off the island, how was he able to get that knowledge?
A: Besides it being a biblical reference, the smoke monster had given this piece of info to Eko in their earlier friendly encounter. The island feeds them memories/info for greater purpose, possibly to fool them to think there is a destiny behind of it all after they become aware of all their odd connections.
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written by AnNa , March 05, 2008
I agree with most of skatterbrain's theory. "Perhaps they are all guinea-pigs of some experiment and their true connection will be revealed not until the end of the show." - This was my idea during the first seasson, but i think that they are all part of the others, that they have volunteered for the purposes of the Iceland, and they were put on some kind of brain washing treatment to forget that they are part of the Iceland..And the black smoke updates their memories to see how will the social structure be like if they have new memories, or how much information they need to remember. Only, they cannot notice a big part of their memories. There are exeptions, like Libby remembering Hugo from the hospital, and Desmond.. but one is dead and the other one is timetravelling
) However, Scatterbrain u should form your theory.. i'll back u up
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written by Tim , March 05, 2008
"...Interesting theory about water, but how did the mouse time-travel without it?..."
Daniel induced it specifically.
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written by sarah , March 05, 2008
I read a blog from someone who worked on the lost set. They said claire gets on the helicopter but is pushed out and they take the baby....
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written by sarah , March 05, 2008
that is why it is hard for jack to see aaron because he finds out claire was his sister and she is probably dead. And it is hard for him to see his nephew because of it....
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written by Kari , March 05, 2008
Sawyer is not going to be the one in the coffin. The producers have stated that it is someone we MEET in SEASON 4. So start thinking- Faraday, Charlotte, etc.......
The Claire being pushed out of the helicopter was declared to be false information.
My thought on Aaron is that he is some sort of 'dark matter" duplicate or alternate Aaron who can not come into contact with the real Aaron(as per the bunny number 15 from the Orchid training video- search Youtube)
Another bunny #15 suddenly appears and they freak out about keeping them apart. I think that somehow there ends up being 2 Aarons and one has to stay on the island and Kate takes the second Aaron so he will not come into contact with Aaron #1.
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written by Challis , March 05, 2008
whoa, I wasn't even thinking that Kate's aaron could BE Aaron. duh!
love the carzy H20 theory, especially since Penny's Dad gave up her correct address so easily, very fishy!!
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written by Weston , March 05, 2008
What about Aaron? He gets off the island AND was with Claire at the time of the explosion.
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written by Pete , March 05, 2008
Your theory doesn't really work. Anyone can leave the island as long as they follow the right coordinates 325. The helicopter pilot used the coordinates of 305 and that plus the hatch explosion was the reason Desmond experienced side effects. If they had followed the correct coordinates everything would have been fine. Also Aaron was on the beach with Claire so again your theory doesn't pan out because regardless of whether or not Aaron is considered one of the oceanic 6, he still would have been too close to the hatch explosion to leave the island without experiencing side effects which would have eventually killed him, according to your theory. The proximity of the explosion is not a factor in deciding who get off the island.
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written by Todd , March 05, 2008
let me ask this - If for any reason you don't exsist in the year to which you are returning, could that prevent you from going back. Say for instance you died presnt time, but are living island time (can you even do this) what does that mean for your return. Wouldn't that prevent you from returning to at least that time period. Say Jack and Kate returned, but for whatever reason in the present time Claire was deceased, maybe during the past when she delivered Aaron on the island. If that is the case, she would have to return to a previous year, and one before she had Aaron, etc. Am I making any sense?
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written by Todd , March 05, 2008
Or better yet - they returned to the same time frame in which she gave birth and died in present, but because Aaron was already born on the island he exsists. The other thing, didn't Claire decide to keep the baby only after crashing or just before. Perhaps she decided to give the baby up for adoption, and Kate was the adoptive parent because of the connection in island and present. still am I making sense?
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written by Caleb D , March 05, 2008
Also, we know that Penny's dad (Widmore) has never wanted Desmond to be a part of her life and is closely connected to Desmond being on the Island in the first place since Desmond ended up on the Island just trying to prove a point to Penny's dad.
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written by Redeat , March 05, 2008
i think you have a sound theory.....very interesting.......however, even if this was the case, can't the other losties find their constant once they're back home? i know time is an issue, since they need to find a constant before their brain blows off, but don't you think all the losties have someone off the island, that is significant enough to be their constant?
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written by 734Greenhouse , March 05, 2008
What if Aaron is really Kate and Sawyers and she named him after Aaron because it was Claire and Aaron that talked to Kate and told her she didn't think she could hanclle babies either, then Aaron came along.Jack is upset because something dramatic happens to Claire or Aaron as last second and he can't save them. Maybe he promised to get them off and couldn't fix it so they could come.Aaron reminds him of Claires Aaron and he can't face it. Which is why he starts to fall apart trying to get back.
On a side note: I agree with Sawyer, Why leave, island,food,water,electricty,no bills. Not bad gig if you can get it.(of course only for those who don't have family
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written by jamiee , March 06, 2008
I never thought about the water connection before -- I like it!
Something no one has mentioned that would compliment your theory:
Ever notice that the reflection of the island in the water is actually a city (when they show the title)???
Don't have a clue what it would mean, but thought I would point it out!
Surely someone much smarter than me might have an idea???
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written by cowbhoy , March 06, 2008
Me thinks that Richard Alpert and the first others have already mastered the art of time travel ie, Not just the mind but the whole person.
There was an orientation film that shows a rabbit , and after some incident happening they have brought the same rabbit from the future.
This would explain why John Locke can walk on the island , This is no miracle..Richard Alpert brought Lockes dad from the past before he pushed him out the window causing him to be paralysed.therefore he can walk.
Also i think that it is Locke who is in coffin
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written by Kim , March 06, 2008
I think only those exposed to radiation and who takes the wrong path would need a constant to get off the island(ie Des. Dan, Minkowski and Brandon who died that we know of so far). I don't believe the others would need a constant if they took the right path off the island. I also think more than 6 people got off the island but those who were not on the flight is not included eg. Des, Juliet. There are some who are left though as Charlie said in Hurly's episode that they need him and Jack and Hurly also discussed this. I get the feeling Kate stole Aaron or something went terribly wrong which is why Jack didn't want to see him. Remember though that Aaron is a "special" child as one he was born on the island and two prior to his birth Claire was given instructions on him. I know Michael is to return in episode 8 but I don't believe he is on the freighter he may appear back on the island kinda the way Desmond did when he tried to leave, maybe he wasn't given the coordinates and can't get off.
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written by Scatterbrain , March 06, 2008
Anna said:
I agree with most of skatterbrain's theory.
Thanks Anna, it's just something that came out of my head on a boring day at work, while reading all these speculations about the show. Maybe I'll work on it (find more solid clues) and post somewhere on the forums, though they have tens of this kind of theories.
Crazy how a TV show can become such a phenomena. But I couldn't think of any other show doing that at the moment...
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written by zygon , March 06, 2008
Read info on the Philadelphia experiment and all of this will make sense. BTW, the supposed "missing" person from this event was named "Jacob."
Combine that with the latest episode and you have 90% of your answers.
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written by KELLY , March 06, 2008
how do we know that Jack and Claire are siblings? have i missed something?
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written by KELLY , March 06, 2008
ooh just read about the philadelphia experiment like Zygon suggested; that does make a lot of a sense and ifeel like i understand a lot more now!! thanks, Zygon!
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written by sas ireland , March 06, 2008
That s the first theory that makes totally sense. since jj is a close friend of tom cruise, they believe in mind time thingies it could be true.slan from ireland
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written by Me , March 06, 2008
The water thing is a bust. The rat was sent back in time. There was no water involved. The machine that was used to send the rat back in time is simulated by the island. There is something to be wondered at here. Why is it always raining when Desmond is in the army?
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written by Seat42f... , March 06, 2008
KELLY said:
how do we know that Jack and Claire are siblings? have i missed something?
----------------
Episode 12 Par Avion from last season we learn that Christian Shephard is Claires Dad. Claire and Jack are half siblings.
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written by Seat42f... , March 06, 2008
Me said:
The water thing is a bust. The rat was sent back in time. There was no water involved. The machine that was used to send the rat back in time is simulated by the island. There is something to be wondered at here. Why is it always raining when Desmond is in the army?
---------------------------------
As I said... crazy theory... but technically
we can't disprove it with the rat. The rat went ahead in time and we didn't see where he went. We only saw his present condition of being stuck and unstuck so no way to see if water was involved in the future. A stretch for sure...... More importantly though the rat went AHEAD in time. Every other mind travel/jump had been to the past at this point... report abuse
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written by ??? , March 06, 2008
my ideas follow on really from this theory. I think that this is pretty reasonable to suggest that the 9 that werent near the hatch implosion are immune. Especially when i can garuntee that jin and sun are the final two in the oceanic six. And michael is not on the freighter, he is in jin and sun's flash forward and works in a toy shop where a shooting takes place and one of these three is shot and killed.
Secondly i think this theory is superbly set up for everything that has happened throughout lost. If it is true that you need a constant to 'live' then everyone has one because they have all collided in the past with eachother or people that could link them to eachother which will give them their constants.
Richard Alpert also appears to be the economist who hiring people to find ben.
And finally Dharma will be coming back to the island!
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written by Kari , March 07, 2008
Richard Alpert does not appear to be the economist who hired people to find Ben, he is one of the others and as such has had access to Ben on a regular basis. Last seen in the season 3 finale.
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written by Antonio - Italy , March 07, 2008
Fantastic!!! Charles Widmore its too polite with Des....... Yes, he knows..
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written by Luke Cox , March 07, 2008
Did anyone else notice that Widmore was bidiing on the book from The Black Rock ? The French chic's boat
just thought it was a a lil' funny. Just pointin it out jus incase nobody noticed report abuse
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written by Kari , March 07, 2008
Danielle was not of the Black Rock- that is a very old pirate ship. She has only been on the island for 16 years. I think Widmore was biding on the book because he knows or assumes it has a connection to the island. I wonder if the reason he even knows about the island is because of Desmond having the time flashes. I agree he definately knew. I also think he is the "Economist" and thought so since that episode due to the fact that this person obviously had a vast personal fortune and was a very important person. I do agree that Jin and Sun will be the next 2 Oceanic 6 members though.
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written by sas ireland , March 07, 2008
I still wonder when kate goes back to the baby she asks jack if he wants to see him, but if it would be claires baby and he is the uncle of it he surely would be there asap. also no sign for any medicin he needs...as it was said that the baby was sick in series 1/2.would claire not be aarons constant?still so many questions to answer.slan from ireland
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written by Mighty_Marshall , March 09, 2008
What about when she said she talked with Charlie and then she knew she wasnt crazy...
That means Charlie is alive...hmmmm
Also when charlie "died" he was in water, maybe with your h20 theory would mean he was transported to another dimension or something...?1
Thoughts anyone?
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written by jeff , March 09, 2008
Kind of an offshoot here, but I haven't found many people who caught this. Forgive me if it's already been brought up.
The book Charles WIdmore bought at the auction is important, not just because it's from the "black rock" (the old boat on the island.
The seller's last name is Hanso. Hanso is also the name of the financier of the Dharma initiative (revealed in season 2, "Orientation". The first name's are different, but the auctioneer says that only the seller and his immediate family have ever read the contents of the journal.
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written by sas ireland , March 09, 2008
Loving the h2o theory about charly. but still dont think he comes back, word in ireland is he is casted for a new uk show or so.slan
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written by sas ireland , March 11, 2008
I can't believe it, i doublechecked juliette episode, ben is reading a book from philip k.dick, he wrote bladerunner or? he believes in this theory that you are not where you think you are & should never take things how they look for real. they are few other famous scripts for tv & film adaptations. e-news that's a hint for you, check out the author philip k.dick..ie total recall...so we have another theory about mind travelling ( arnie in total recall) & implants...if Dharma is the genius behind this ones. slan from ire,
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written by VBC , March 13, 2008
Maybe water is only important in Desmond's travels through time and each person or thing has something like that? But I kind of have to believe that water does play a part somehow.
Also question about the book that Widmore bought? If it is from Hanso and the black rock how the heck did it make it back to the main land if the black rock is on the island??? And how was a picture of the black rock created if the world doesn't know about the island?
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written by sas ireland , March 13, 2008
loved that observation with the boat picture, but perhaps all people on the island are cursed and that has to do with the list?Just a thought,slan
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written by Danno , March 13, 2008
I think it is all in the mind of Hugo "Hurley" Reyes...and we're not talking Chavez here...
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written by sas ireland , March 14, 2008
like the film, being john malcowitz...great theory, i like it.slan
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written by Jim , March 14, 2008
Well, now we know Sun is number 5 and Jin is dead. So either Jin died after being rescued (hence in the coffin but wouldn't make sense since no one showed up) or Sawyer is number 6 and possibly in the coffin.
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written by sas ireland , March 14, 2008
we are 1 day behind with the show in ireland, jin will perhaps found out that baby not his and commited suicide as his honour blackend or so, slan
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written by 589loser , March 19, 2008
This is a amazing show. I think that the best person on the show is Hugo.
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written by guest121 , March 20, 2008
108 comments. funny.
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written by sas ireland , March 20, 2008
Hi Scatterbrain, how was your day at work, missing your input.i put info also out here, actor of john locke bought an ice cream at shop next door - ring of kerry.is he dead as they started film ing while ago? perhaps he dissolves like jacob? i don't get that character at all.is he existing or is he ben's constante???? slan
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written by Maeve , March 20, 2008
Given what we know I don't think your theory holds water.
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written by sas ireland , March 21, 2008
I agree, think that actor had bit time off ....kerry rain as much as on the island, haha
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written by This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it , March 22, 2008
i need old season4 lost.where i can fund old season?in spanish please because im from cordoba in argentina
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written by sas ireland , March 22, 2008
perhaps on amazon.spain? i find amazon.de good if i want to get dvd's.mui bien, hope that is correct.
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written by sas ireland , March 26, 2008
I finally watched the episode...ireland far behind, haha. still interessting that the captain called it a hunt, what they are doing.Hunt on the island/polarbears??? there would fit charlotte in as she had interest in the bear skeleton.or hunt for Ben?Jacob? Michael is Michael , defo.Walt is walt, but i dont think that the house is identical to the one with the grandson spirit.That makauskly man on the bed went mad, why?Did anyone saw him in a flashback before the freighter?Jack has to go back to the island as he cant die perhaps as michael cant do either, he is drinking & nothing helps.Where was ben when he spoke to michael on the freighter,any ideas? got more confused by this one than any other,still dont know why sayid works for ben?Please help, bevore i get lost
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written by sas ireland , March 30, 2008
Happy 1st of April, haha.
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written by sas ireland , April 03, 2008
I had right Philip K.Dick book that Ben reads has got written stories about people seeing in the future in it, he wrote the story for film next with n.cage about detective seeing 2min into the fututre, that must be bens skill & perhaps walt can do that too.That's their connection.Anybody out there?????????????????????
April 03, 2008
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written by sas ireland , April 17, 2008
Why is sawjer on this famous list,if he isnt one of the oceanic 6?????????survivors? Any idea. just tired and thought to lenghten this commentline.
Hi, back on the 24th what ice cream would be good to eat?????chocolate with nuts,yum report abuse
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written by Tiffany Bracelets , October 17, 2009
Tiffany & Co PINK TASSEL COMBTiffany & Co PINK TASSEL COMB Tiffany & Co PINK TASSEL COMBTiffany & Co PINK TASSEL COMB
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